The Alexander Graham Bell Association of the Deaf (AGBad) ought to be really ashamed of hirself on very bad manner by refusing the certified letter from the Audism Free America (AFA). How rude! How arrogant of the AGBad!
Hey AGBad, the Audism Free America (AFA) already done the real courtesy of getting itself in the middle ground to reach out and engage you in such talks to work out the concerns affecting the Deaf America on your audistic behavior from the Pespi letter to the denounction of AFA's peaceful rally outside the AGBad building.
What kind of manners we are getting from the AGBad? You, the AGBad people know better than resorting to poor manners like disrespecting the AFA representatives with such demands for no recording of historic meeting on the terrain of the Volta Bureau building (AGBAD) and denounce the guests behind their backs by issuing the public statement. What an unbelievable manner!
What will Miss Manners, the national syndicated columnist would say about very inconsiderate and selfish manner on the part of the AGBell organization by dismissing the AFA's attempts for fruitful communication to maximize the benefits of deaf youngsters everywhere?
What will the Georgetown DC society think of you, the AGBad choose to snub the incoming guest like the Audism Free American (AFA)? What about your other finanical donors?
The AFA ought to ask the U.S. Congress and other parents of deaf youngsters and babies the same courtesy to deny you, the AGBad all the lobbying access for your terrible manner to the AFA all the way. So you, the AGBad could understand how the AFA and the Deaf America really feel about your mean-spirited manner.
AGBad, Never turn down any kind of written correspondence or attempted communication! You are the real parasite to every fabric of American society from your unethical and money-grubbing behavior toward strong-willed deaf individuals express their concerns for the well-beings of deaf youngsters and babies from any further harm and no-barred educational opportunities.
Last of all, Miss Manner would wholly agree with me on this subject. *scolding, scolding* and remind you of the real importance of good manners! Enjoy your weekend, AGBad! See that I am also extending you very nice manner. Please return your good manner to the AFA! Thanks in advance!
ASLize yours,
Robert L. Mason (RLM)
RLMDEAF blog
Friday, June 5, 2009
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Actually I would believe that Miss Manners would be disagreeing with AFA's overall tactics in the past. Now before you guys start calling me an AGB supporter, by the way which I am not a member of, let me give you and example of why.
ReplyDeleteAllow me to impose a hypothetical situation here. Suppose I am someone that does not like you for who you are and I publicly bash you over and over where everyone across the country sees it. I stage a protest with 200 people in front of your house. I publicly degrade you continuously and I make false accusations towards you without having my facts straight, etc. You are fully aware of who I am and you decide you do not want anything to do with me anymore, I then send you a certified letter, are you going to sign for it?
RLM,
ReplyDeleteGood post! Just ignore the hypocrisy, Valhallian, another oppressor produced.
If find the comment by the anonymous commenter above quite interesting. Cuz if he is calling me an oppressor for outlining what AFA did and converting it into a hypothetical situation for RLM, then I suppose that should also mean that the anonymous commenter thinks that AFA is an oppressor too ya know?
ReplyDeleteValhallian,
ReplyDeleteYou would be very great tv talk show guest! I will milk you to the extreme ends what an apologist you are for the AGBell.
You seems have some good points about the AFA's lack of comment log forum on its website, but an oppressor, too ???
Did the AFA make any false accusation toward the AGBell?
AFA simply ask the AGBell to retract the Pepsi letter. Is that such a false accusation?
Have the AFA and DBC make false accusation about the AGBell's pro-stance toward the AVT postitions? Nope!
FYI, the gay militant group like the ACT-UP showed up at U.S. Senator Jesse Helms' Virginia home with the 30-feet tall inflated condom. What an originality!
The ACT-UP group effectively forced Americans to get wake up about the real seriousness of AIDS epidemic.
In the end, pols realized how ignorant and stupid they were about the importance for the full-fledged battles against AIDS.
We have the safe sex workshops and effective AIDS/HIV treatment in the 90s which dramatically reduced the AIDS/HIV rate to much lows cuz of the ACT-UP.
I love you, Valhallian for being a great commentator. God bless you!
RLM
So – you, Valhallian want to follow Agbad – to oral – to hearing? If you go through Agbad you’ll partake in the initiation of genocide upon other hearings, all done in Agbad’s name; or so they’ve told us. Hearing partook in the annihilation of the Agbad's, too. Seems Agbad has a lot of blood on their hands. Did AGBAD have anyone’s but his own blood on his hands? And in our own day – how AGBAD has victimized the victims of child abuse – victimized women and men who are called to the oralhood or hearinghood - etc. - where’s your compassion, brother?
ReplyDeleteLooking at the AGBAD’s hidden history, I’m starting to pity those who still believe what AGBAD teaches to enhance our faith: through us in orally and hearing to AGBAD, for it is becoming quite clear, crystal clear, that these quite innocent souls are not going to end up where they believed they would.
For those of you who find this information redundant, I apologize.
RLM
ReplyDeleteThank you again for your support of AFA
You raise a good point re: the "backers" or "investors" in AG Bell Association
One method of civil disobedience is a boycott or call for divestment
Many people have called into question why certain Deaf organizations invest in AG Bell association - sending them money or sponsoring their events, which in turns enables the AG Bell Association to continue calling the shots and refusing to listen to stakeholcers - it also sends a message that these Deaf organizations are sanctioning / promoting / enabling AG Bell's Academy and AVT
Have a great weekend RLM, AG Bell Association, and everyone else
Peace
Patti
RLM. apologist? Where have I ever apologized for them? And to answer your questions. If you see an organization that has people that has publicly spoken out against CFIs, couldn't that be perceived an oppressor? It does in my view. People of AFA have also said that AGB is against ASL, which is a false accusation, just because they do not use it does not mean they are against it and they even allow it in their conventions and yet even provide ASL interpreters. About AVT and false accusations I would not say that but the reality is that if ASL were added to AVT, then it would not be called AVT anymore as AVT is 100% listening based and its not a tactic I would agree with either. But the bottom line is this, it is ultimately the parent that makes that decision if AVT is the right tactic and not us. We need better propaganda for these parents that make that decision and we need to do it without bashing AGB, simple because the bashing is what automatically drives these parents away. And while I answered all your questions, you avoided my only question too, so I will ask it again.
ReplyDeleteWould you have signed for that certified letter in the hypothetical situation I outlined for you?
Anonymous - I am not a follower of AGB, I only said that they have the right to their beliefs. Just the same way that the KKK have their rights to their beliefs and I would never ever become a follower of theirs either. If you want to deny AGB the rights to their beliefs, then I ask you thing, where is your patriotism to this country, as thousands and thousands of people have sacrificed their lives so that we can freely express our beliefs in this country? Are you going to let these people die in vain? AFA has their right to their beliefs, some of which I agree with myself, but I do not agree with their tactics, simply because they were not in the best interests of those beliefs.
It is not fair to paint the child abuse picture on AGB alone, because it has also happened is state schools for the deaf that had absolutely nothing to do with AGB and you appear to be denying this so I toss your own question back to you, Where is YOUR compassion brother?
The whole picture needs to be looked at, not some microscopic view, and my friend, that is the compassion on my part.
Patti - your point about investors or backers. I know some of you will try to make me look bad on this one but I am going to go out on a limb here and ask a simple question, but this is reality.
Where are the investors or backers for those that support ASL? Deaf people that prefer ASL have been around as long as AGB has ya know, and even longer.
It is actually something that I wish happened a long time ago, because then we may possibly have the propaganda to counter AGBs without actually bashing them. That is what I would like to see happen, you all think I am some supporter of AGB when the reality is I am not and I know that the bashing the way it has been done in the past is not working and those tactics need to change.
Aren't there videos of Veditz out there? that in itself could make for some good propaganda if you use it right ya know?
Valhallian
ReplyDeletere: investors - what is the answer to the root of that question. Why havent Deaf folks invested MORE and SOONER in ASL, Deaf culture etc?
Is lack of capital one reason?
Can u get any big bucks from NIH, CDC, NSF etc if approaching Deaf from the cultural / linguistic paradigm and not the medical / infirmity / pathological paradigm?
There is definitely BIG money to be made off of the bodies and brains of Deaf folks and "systems" have already cashed in happily on that
what have WE the Deaf folks gained from this "investment" in the Deaf as a medical problem?
what have WE the Deaf folks gained by the false need created - this rehabilitative approach to the Deaf folks, these social welfare and hand outs?
Many years ago when the govt was considering exempting Deaf folks from the federal tax along with Blind folks - it was the Deaf community (largely through the FRAT i think) that told Congress - "thanks but no thanks. we are able bodied and we can do - do just fine and we are loyal Americans and want to pay our taxes just like everyone else"
so the blind are exempt today but not the Deaf
cool beans eh
im still pretty puzzled by why the "Signing Times" is so HUGELY popular - i mean BIG $$$ there -shows DVDs etc and its all hearing folks based. No Deaf folks in front, behind, or even in the audience to be seen - its largely for the hearing
so u r right ASL does appear to have a capital value but who is cashing in on it
even last year when i attended ASLTA conference i was shocked to learn how many ASL programs in HS were run by hearing folks who contracted in Deaf ASL teachers for one or two classes here or there. It wasnt always an issue of a lack of necessary degree level - often it was simply - the hearing person had an "in" and used it
so ASL is definitely being marked but its being marked to hearing folks and hearing parents of hearing children - it is strategically being kept away from Deaf children and hearing parents of Deaf children
read any options schools, let them hear, hearing health, talk of a life time kinda propaganda and u will see it is largely about keeping ASL a w a y from the hands, eyes and hearts of the Deaf child
even "hands and voices" of wisc advocated for the mandating of insurance coverage of hearing aids and CI without any inclusion of mandating of ASL materials, mentoring and services
re: Veditz - i love you for mentioning him
u can view his classic and impassioned speech "the Preservation of Sign Language" at
http://videocatalog.gallaudet.edu/player.cfm?video=2520
its my dream that every Deaf child will learn about Veditz
much peace
patti
Patti, Thanks for passing along that Veditz video link. I absolutely enjoyed it and the way he presents himself is just so graceful!!!! That is exactly the type of propaganda that is needed.
ReplyDeleteWhat is interesting is that he basically refers to the power of film, which is a form of propaganda. Additionally, he gets his points across without actually bashing anyone and that video is something that leaders can learn from. I would love to see more of his videos and if you know of more links, please pass them along.
His videos need to be preserved forever. Heck I would even like to see this one digitally remastered so that he could be seen more clearly and have captions added onto it for the hearing people to understand. I also enjoyed some of the other old videos at that website.
Patti, thanks again!! Its genuinely appreciated!
so glad u enjoyed Veditz
ReplyDeletehe is awesome. i dont know of any other footage of him but i have read his other writings which are AWESOME
link to his own typed out English version of his signed speech (scroll down)
http://blog.deafread.com/pote/2007/10/12/george-veditz-1861-1937/
im glad u dont view his advocacy against the "new race of pharoahs that knew not Joseph" as bashing or his statement about "false prophets"
Veditz was a strong and tireless advocate who challenged AG Bell, the man, and association
i love how he concludes his speech with "I hope you will cherish and defend..." as it really is a rallying cry and a call to duty
he was a visionary and a prophet in his own right
another GREAT film that i love in the old NAD motion picture project (of which Veditz was instrumental in organizing) is one by John Hotchkiss "Memories of Old Hartford" where he talks about Laurent Clerc - the man and his teaching methods. Priceless really.
Hotchkiss was an alumni of ASD and a professor at Gallaudet College
http://videocatalog.gallaudet.edu/player.cfm?video=2286
another good one is McGregor's The Irishman's Flea - McGregor was the first president of the NAD and also a tireless advocate of ASL and Deaf teachers
http://videocatalog.gallaudet.edu/player.cfm?video=2515
Dr. Ted Supalla will be having a book coming out soon analyzing all the old NAD motion pictures i believe with translations
re: preserving the quality of the film - YES this is very important
Dr. Fleischer of CSUN once told me that the films had been abandoned for a long time and Lou Fant (CODA and educator) rescued them.
So glad Gallaudet has put them up on line as MANY folks still have not seen these classics
thanks so much for ur interest and for ur valuing the power of Media - Veditz would be proud
peace
patti
Patti, while Veditz may be perceived as a foe of oralism, I do not really see it that way. I know he wanted to preserve sign language, but he also did not have the access that we all have now, especially the technology we have these days, such as the internet.
ReplyDeleteWith his limited resources back in those days, people would look at things differently from what they would see nowadays.
I do agree that ASL should be preserved and maintained forever, but I also think that other communication modes need to be respected as well.
Back in the days of Veditz, I would imagine that there was a significantly bigger effort to reduce sign language, for example, if the AGB organization existed in his day, they likely did not allow sign language whatsoever at their conventions in those days, whereas these days, it is allowed in their conventions and they actually provide interpreters too.
What he was saying about the "pharoahs that knew not joseph", he did not appear to be singling out any one particular person or group which is why I do not perceive it as bashing. That quote could even be used when discuss the overall audism picture that runs rampantly across this country without targeting one person or organization as well.
Valhallian
ReplyDeletei think you will very much appreciate reading the writings of Veditz - his letters to AG Bell and obit and his president address for NAD 1910 convention and World congress
u might also enjoy reading Douglas Baynton's Forbidden Signs: American Culture and the Campaign Against Sign Language (1996)
AG Bell tolerated Deaf adults signing. He himself could sign. He did not accept or allow signing in educational programs and his organization promoted his philosophy and methodology of promoting speech by excluding ASL from a Deaf child's life
In his Formations upon a Deaf variety of the Human race he outlined his systematic approach in how to ban ASL from the lives of Deaf children and how to prevent Deaf to Deaf marriages
In terms of AG Bell association providing ASL interpreters at conferences today - it is a legal requirement according to ADA
look forward to seeing what you learn re: AG Bell the man and organization and Veditz and NAD etc
much peace
patti
Patti, I already know about AG Bell the man in general and he is definitely not someone that I would admire at all, rest assured of that. I do not agree with what he did in wanting to keep deaf people apart. However, AGB, the organization outlives people, therefore it has evolved along with time.
ReplyDeleteI do not personally fully and wholly support their outlook either, but I do recognize the fact that they are very well within their rights to do what they are doing. And because I recognize that right, I get called an AGB lover, an AGB supporter, you name it.
I'm perfectly ok with being called those names. If people have sacrificed their lives in order to give us the freedom of being able to support our own beliefs, then me being called a mere name is nothing compared to someone else actually sacrificing their life so we can have this right.
Its just unfortunate that we have people that are quick to judge, simply because it also means that they are also allowing those people that have sacrificed there lives for them to have that freedom to die in vain.
It's quite sad really, and I am compelled to continue to stand up for the people that have sacrificed their lives so that they didn't die in vain, as we would not be where we are now without these people.
Now as for you saying that AGB is providing interpreters due to the ADA, the conflict with that is that I am recalling that I had seen interpreters at an AGB convention even before the ADA was passed. The ADA did not become law until 1990 which was after when I graduated from college, and I recall going to an AGB convention while I was in college and I saw interpreters there and I also saw many deaf members signing inside the convention too.
I certainly will try to find the time to read up some more on Veditz, and the reason for that is to try to figure out what he would say in this day and age and how he would react. I got a gut feeling that it is how he expressed himself and his attitude is an area that we all can learn from.
Veditz was so eloquent and graceful in his presentation, which unfortunately wasn't what I saw in recent protests against AGB. There is a huge difference between the two...HUGE DIFFERENCE.
Sure he may have written letters disagreeing with AGB, but he certainly didn't hold public protests that singled out AGB did he? He very well had the opportunity to do so as he went to Gallaudet and taught at Maryland School for the Deaf which isn't far away, but he didn't. At least I don't think he did unless anyone wants to correct me here as I do not know that for a fact. In that video link that you mentioned, my impression was that he was looking at the whole picture as opposed to singling someone out.
I absolutely think that more information about Veditz does need to be made public because his thinking and how he expressed himself is something that both deaf and hearing people alike can learn from.
I have to jump into the ongoing discussion between both of you, Deaf Cinema and Valhallian.
ReplyDeleteI must say that you, Valhallian ought to read Douglas Banyon's nonfiction book - Forbidden Signs; Campaign Against Sign Language book as part of your summer reading. This book is very superbu!!
Banyonm, hearing author himself realized that the use of sign language in deaf educational settings are more cost-effective and practical than oralism.
Educational facilities of the deaf do not have to hire too many teachers to deal and project the oral methods as compared to one teacher teach 20 students as compared to oral teacher, teacher assistant, audiologist and speech therapist - four professionals just for 20 students!
Deaf children could see their signing teacher in one classroom while the oral teacher have to sit down with each student - very time-consuming and impractical.
Deaf signing students learn much faster than oral deaf students based on statistics and researches.
AGB and the AGBell made greater impacts on the quality of deaf education which many schools for the deaf resorted to the preference of hiring deaf individuals with oral speech skills over qualified deaf signing teachers.
How horrible! The quality of deaf education shoot down the toliet since oralism got introduced to the schools for the deaf.
You have to remember that George Veditiz was in the particular time when not many people do the public protests except political radicals.
Veditz also was a public employee with the Maryland School for the Deaf whch he had to be very careful without getting fired for being outspoken.
Many deaf signing employees went silent without getting any attention to themselves. One deaf signing faculty employee had to resort to the subtle message to blast the oral teaching methods by using animal fable story like "The Ass and Horses", a classic deaf story pointed out such illogical approach to the deaf education thru oralism.
There were many subtle and quiet protests against the AGBell and AGB.
Edward Miner Gallaudet (EMG) had to close down the teacher training program at the National College for the Deaf -Mute to keep AGB from going on fully with the U.S. Congress to slash approporations for this deaf college.
That was a tragic legacy of EMG to deny the future deaf students to be trained as the educator of deaf for more than 80 years! No question, AGB played very pivotal role in this debacle!
I hope that you, Valhallian take up some summer readings on Harlan Lane books.
RLM
I forget to say thanks to Deaf Cinema!
ReplyDeleteIf Valhallian keep making arguments. You, Deaf Cinema do not have to waste your precious time with him.
We have to drill the greater understanding of deaf issues into his thick skull (Valhallian) to wake up and understand what is going on.
If you want to make more rebuttals. That is much your right. :)
RLM
RLM, I would imagine that it is your skull that needs drilling so you can wake up and actually understand the big picture.
ReplyDeleteYou keep looking at old history over and over, it is the equivalency of one thinking that slavery happened practically yesterday. While I can understand and respect history, we need to look at what is happening today, not 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, and on years ago.
oh and one more thing RLM, I noticed you still hadn't answered my question in the hypothetical situation to begin with. You are suggesting books so your reading comprehension must be fine, so I guess your silence on this question appears to prove my point, I am now taking it that you would not sign for that certified letter either. Which completely defeats your points on this posting to begin with.
ReplyDeleteValhallian,
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, please do not make any assumption about my so-called silence.
I rather spend less and less time on computer use. I am in total agreement with your dear friend, MM from England about real annoyance of armchair activists like your likes.
You seems love to osfecuate (msp.) endlessly to make your point.
I happen to have some problems with the Apple Mac computer lately. Do not jump to any conclusion!
I never make an issue about your drinking problems which tend to make you more abrasive as many people describe you to be at the deaf social settings.
To answer your question whether I will sign the certified letter. The answer is YES! I would not deny anyone to waste their hard-earned money on the expense of certified mail. That is called the good manner to respond to anything whenever comes up. Caspice?
I rather enjoy quiet and peaceful moment than haggling online "ping pong" games wih you, Valhallian. Comprendo?
Have a nice summertime, Valhallian. Smile!
See that the culturally deaf and signing deaf always have good manners than hearing and deaf audists. See that???
RLM
RLM
RLM, With your concluding comment, I guess it could also mean that you aren't culturally deaf, nor a signing deaf, cuz you obviously do not have any good manners here, as well as in most other places in the blogosphere.
ReplyDeleteAnd oh sure, blame it on computer problems, I asked the question and you responded without an answer. So I responded to you along with asking the question again. Then my responses that followed that was actually a conversation with Patti, and then you jumped in the discussion between me and Patti, where you again ignored the question.
Naturally that would lead just about anyone to make a guess that you did not want to answer it and now you're saying you won't. I personally think you would fail a lie detector test here, not that I would hold you to one.
I am abrasive when it comes to dealing with two faced people like you so drinking has nothing to do with it. And yes, I do enjoy having a drink on occasions and everyone that knows me knows that so you aren't telling me anything new here, besides I wouldn't be a viking if I didn't ;) What you call ping pong here is what I perceive as calling bullshit as I see it and I am calling bullshit here on your part here. ;) I can see that you can't handle it and ya know what, thats ok too.
I know I have flaws, just like everyone else, but I won't need to stoop down to your level to make excuses about your flaws tho.